Podcast Implodes

edit Tom Paine, Brian of London and others 2007-10-30 08:06 UTC 41 comments

I'm afraid we have some bad news. For reasons which are detailed in the podcast, this is probably the final Shire Network News, certainly at least in it's current format. [See Update below for amendments to that statement]

We seem to have gotten ourselves smack-dab in the middle of the Blog Civil War that's going on, and we managed to get ourselves ripped apart by the gravitational forces. Yes, yes, we TRIED reversing the polarity through the deflector array, didn't work.

In part, the reason why "Brian of London" and "Tom Paine" in Australia have come to truce and treaty and the parting of the ways is the subject of this weeks special and probably last feature interview.

It's with Filip Dewinter, leader of the Valaams Belang, the Flemish nationalist party in Belgium. As many of you already know, there has been a great disturbance in the Blog recently over the counter-Jihad movement cooperating with the VB and other European parties with questionable antecedents, such as the Swedish Democrats.

Shire Network News was offered the chance to put the tough questions to the man himself. And so, like idiots, we did.

And then...well, listen for yourselves.

For myself, "Tom Paine", now that we seem to be in the Blogosphere equivalent of the week that Fort Sumter was fired upon, I reckon on lighting out for the territories for a spell, I figure I'll be back when this has all blown over. And I'm sure all of us wish Brian of London great success with his family in their new country.

And perhaps it might be worth remembering that there's a real enemy out there, and it's not each other, m'kay?

UPDATE:

Due to overwhelming public demand (and the fact that Meryl Yourish is metaphorically standing over me, tapping her Louisville Slugger in a meaningful way), Shire Network News will NOT be ending.

So do please go ahead and subscribe through iTunes, you can count on us still coming out regularly. But can I ask that you bear with us while we sort out a few internal issues and work out what changes we might need to make to the show.

"Brian of London" is currently in transit between the UK and the USA, and as a new immigrant he may need some time to get on his feet, meaning less time for the podcast. No doubt when he's found his feet he will be able to do a terrific Alastair Cooke Englishman-in-America routine.

Producing a weekly good quality satirical-yet-serious program with contributors all over the world is not easy, quick, or cheap, and there's a degree of stress involved. None of us are making any money off this, we do it because we want to make a difference.

I just want to thank you for your support, and ask for your patience while we have a bit of a re-think about what we're doing and how we do it. And who we're prepared to jump into bed with, but lets not start THAT again.

There, happy now?

In the meantime, I think it's time for some Illinois Nazis!

Comment #1csva

2007-10-30 19:39:46


Thank you for the great podcast!  Now off to sacrifice 2 chickens and a goat in the hope that Tom comes back after the smoke clears and his gunpowder is dry.

Brian welcome home!
And don't forget to carry a large gun in West Virginia.

Comment #2Agrippa2k

2007-10-30 22:29:52

Tom -

I was disturbed by the text intro to your "last" podcast.  Not because of the content, but the dire consequences of it.  I would terribly miss ShireNetNews.

After listening to it - that was one of the most PROFESSIONAL interviews I have EVER heard!  Perhaps some feel the interview should have been more confrontational?

What was missing was the "argument" about it.  I needed to hear the views of the folks who protest.  Without that, it is difficult to get to the emotion that surrounds it.

That being said (unfortunately) I feel I should mention a bit about me.  I am a black guy in the US - New York. So I have NO sympathy for neo-nazis, fascists, racists of any kind.  However, we will not be ready for this fight until we solidify our core.  While we figure out who WE are (as you say conservative, right, whatever) we need to trim the edges of those who might use the emerging struggle to advance their own subversive agendas.

While it is a challenge to wade through their smoke screen, we need to have faith in ourselves.  Faith that we are not worn out having finally seen the heart of the Islamist movement.  Perhaps the argument is due to laziness.

For the time being most have sided with the Jihadis.  Hatred of Jews and Christians (they are not) is at their core.  However the press enjoys their antisemitism and calls them Christians.  While it will be distasteful, eventually they will have to abandon their roots.  When they do they will sound more like us.  We need to call them on their past, and require true repentance.

So, well done my friend.  As it happens I AM THE AUTHORITY on this matter, and declare we should get back to it. Tell your friends NOT TO BE AFRAID.  Long live ShireNetNews.

Comment #3Smit

2007-10-30 22:55:39

Oh Noes!

Man, can't we all just get along?

/you've forced me to quote Rodney King damn you, damn you all to hell.

But seriously, you guys have just put together 2 of the strongest episodes ever with the Muslim apostates. Please guys & gal, take some time & come back. I need my weeklyish injection of sanity. Pls think of the children.

Comment #4Brett_McS

2007-10-30 23:57:56

Crumbs!  I miss the podcast for the first time in ages and look what happens!  Just when the recognition from the big blogs (eg LGF) that you've been looking for is rolling in.

The great Lord Acton had this to say on (what I presume is) the subject (I haven't listened yet, just heard the kerfuffle):

At all times sincere friends of freedom have been rare, and its triumphs have been due to minorities, that have prevailed by associating themselves with auxiliaries whose objects often differed from their own; and this association, which is always dangerous, has been sometimes disastrous, by giving to opponents just grounds of opposition, and by kindling dispute over the spoils in the hour of success. No obstacle has been so constant, or so difficult to overcome, as uncertainty and confusion touching the nature of true liberty. If hostile interests have wrought much injury, false ideas have wrought still more; and its advance is recorded in the increase of knowledge, as much as in the improvement of laws.

Comment #5Scott

2007-10-31 00:38:31

I only listened to the original "Tom Paine" version of SNN--so if SNN goes back to that, I'm all for it.

Comment #6Morgan

2007-10-31 01:06:42

First time listener, through LGF. Whether you continur or not, that was an exceptionally professional interview. Well done, you should have had zero reservations and I guess I'm just wondering still what legitimate reason could have been raised against that? Good work, and good luck.

Comment #7Jason T.

2007-10-31 01:32:04

This was bound to happen, since the anti-racist hysteria that has infected the West is at the very CENTER of the West's almost complete inability to effectively defend it's own civilization, culture, standards, and peoples. What you sleepwalking anti-racist propaganda-spouting parrots have yet to accept (though I'm quite sure many of you DO realize it in the back of your minds) is that the very notion of defending the "West" means defending WHITES.  Whites ARE the "West"...and they are the only ones who can ever BE so.  As you well know, but just are too intimidated to acknowledge openly, the "Western World" is just a euphemism for the White part of humanity...the VERY IMPORTANT part of humanity that has been responsible for 95% of all world historical progress over the last 500 years, and the part that sets the standard for the very MEANING of the word "civilized".

Whites have spent a couple centuries now and untold trillions of dollars attempting to bring the benefits of our "Western" civilization to the rest of the world, and it hasn't fully "taken", except in a very few places, and only among high-IQ populations, such as Japan (but note it took the Japanese Empire's total defeat in war, and more than a decade of benevolent American dictatorship to accomplish this).  We seem to continue to think that race doesn't matter, when all evidence shows that it does matter a great deal, is in fact the key to almost every aspect of life that creates the "culture" and "civilization" that we say we want to defend.  So this fundamental intellectual truth must eventually be embraced by anyone who seeks victory in the current societal battle, or such schisms will continue to sap our strength as we are infiltrated, overrun and destroyed from within by this never-ending flood of hostile Third-World aliens.  We can accept the help of colored people like Agrippa2K, the Black American posting in comment #2, but he and everyone else should not fool themselves that our "way of life" is anything other than a WHITE way of life. A certain smallish percentage of non-whites can contribute to it, but it is not theirs, it is ours, and if we are displaced from our own lands, our way of life disappears with us (witness any large American city where blacks are a majority - collapsing Detroit, 81% black, being the best example).

The squeamish half of the West's defenders need to get their heads clear, stop being embarrassed to defend the absolutely WONDERFUL achievements and UNIQUE way of life we whites have created, and resist the anti-racists and their attempts to make you ashamed of explicitly standing up for white heritage, history, culture, values and nations.  We deserve homelands of our own, where we are the majority, as much as any other race on the planet.  These are OUR homes, OUR societies, and OUR lands.  Anything but an explicit racial defence will be too abstract, intellectual, and emotionally unengaging to be truly effective in galvanizing our people for the long and difficult fight ahead...

Comment #8Joan

2007-10-31 01:48:53

I am reminded of William F Buckley, Jr., when he began National Review and gave life to the Conservative Movement.  He was very careful to distance himself from members of the John Birch Society, lest conservative ideas be tainted by association with cranks.  I have to wonder where we'd be today if he had compromised.

 We should be just as careful as he was.  Our movement is about saving Western Civilization, and that's too important a mission to risk being tainted by association with unsavory characters.

 There seems to be a tinge of desperation in this whole business, an any port in the storm attitude.  But I have no doubt that we can find much better friends and allies than Filip Dewinter.

 I hope we'll be hearing from you again, Tom.  Shire Network News has been a joy and a delight.

Comment #9Joanne

2007-10-31 02:34:24

 "We can accept the help of colored people like Agrippa2K, the Black American posting in comment #2, but he and everyone else should not fool themselves that our "way of life" is anything other than a WHITE way of life."

Yikes! Never mind Dewinter, we have a racist right in the ranks of the listeners. Anyone who talks about the "white way of life" doesn't understand the "American way of life." The statement above goes against what is best in Western civilization. As for black Americans, in spite of the terrible discrimination (not to mention slavery) they've suffered over the years, they have contributed voluminously to American civilization. A "small proportion" of blacks contributing to American civilization? Think of what our culture would've been like without their contributions. Think of the fact that they've been in America for 400 years (a lot longer than my antecedents!). This is very much THEIR country, too.

Anyway, I originally wanted to comment on the interview. And I must say that it was extremely well done. As I was listening to it, I was amazed at how Tom Paine posed difficult questions, confrontational questions, never mincing words, and never shying away from focusing on awkward points...and yet he was unceasingly polite and let the Dewinter talk. It was a reminder that this kind of journalism can be done. BBC staffers should listen to this interview and use it as a model. A great interview.

By the way, I got the impression that Dewinter is relying on the notion of "culture" instead of "race" as a way to pursue his goals while not seeming to be a racist, and I think Tom Paine picked up on that. Well, anyway, it was hard to miss.

I am confused, however, about the rift between Brian of London and Tom Paine. At first I thought the rift was due to the fact that Paine interviewed Dewinter. I assumed that Brian of London was against having the interview. But at the end of the podcast, Paine's own opinions about Dewinter were so hostile that I began to wonder if the rift were due to the fact that Brian of London supports cooperation with Valaams Belang and Tom Paine doesn't.

What gives? What's the story here? Tom Paine was very circumscribed in his references to their rift. Come on now! Out with it!  :-)

Anyway, I'm sorry to see this podcast fold its tents, especially as I've only discovered it a few months ago. I'm not a conservative, but I enjoyed listening to you guys. I'll miss you.

Comment #10Del Simmons

2007-10-31 03:31:07

Well, personally I'm with you Tom. Hope it's not too terribly long before we hear from you again, my friend!

I've posted my thoughts on the matter here:

 http://www.freespeech.com/?p=590

Comment #11clazy

2007-10-31 03:52:08

Great interview--so professional that I had no idea where you stood. Firm, polite questions discover much more than badgering.

I was afraid you wouldn't get DeWinter to explain his remarks about blacks, lesbians and his daughter--the reply was the most tortured answer of the whole session, and it clinched my impression of the man as a dissembling bigot.

Don't go away. I've loved this show for two years--I hate to think I won't have it to look forward to.

Comment #12Meryl Yourish

2007-10-31 04:33:51

Shall we take a deep breath here, people?

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

I don't hear any fat lady singing.

I will be back in action after Saturday. Then we shall see what we shall see.

Comment #13Reese

2007-10-31 04:55:45

I'm with Clazy, there.  I haven't listened yet.  Will miss you guys and Ms. Yourish.  I'll find you as I know you exist in other ways in the 'sphere.

 #2, I don't give a dang what color you are.  Same you, #7.  This is the internet.  For all I know you're one person doing sockpuppets.  As for substance in your comments, #2 I like because I read past the brief irrelevant parts; #7 I might have if I'd bothered to read past the non-brief irrelevant stuff.

 I <heart> SNN.  'Brian', welcome home.    Do your best to earn your way as we all should.  (From a guy who has a government job).

Comment #14Reese

2007-10-31 04:58:58

I <heart> Meryl Yourish.

Comment #15Samir

2007-10-31 06:29:57

I am not surprised the right-wing Americans would gravitate towards neo-Nazi parties of Europe. I would advise that American right-wing groups stay far, far away from European neo-Nazi parties, because I can say first-hand that European conservatives are a thousand times more right-wing than their American counterparts. They engage in violence all the time against immigrants and minority groups. Join them at your own peril, Americans.

Comment #16Mark W

2007-10-31 06:35:18

This is devastating to me. As indicated by an earlier commentator, this podcast is/was my weekly dose of sanity. Please Tom, Brian, Meryl, please, please don't leave me and your myriad fans without SNN. I really have come to rely on it. You guys are like old friends to me and I'll miss all of you terribly :(

Comment #17Agrippa2k

2007-10-31 07:01:32

The comment by Jason T. demonstrates the problem.

Just because someone agrees with you on one point (the Jihadi threat) doesn't mean they don't believe they were abducted by UFOs - idiots.  Just take a look at the Left.  They have the Code Pinkos and the 911 Truthers on their side. Idiots.  The left is unsure what to do with them.  Evidence that this battle is about to begin - our crazies have finally come out.

Western civilization is Judeo-Christian civilization.  This is the basis of our laws, and values - the redemption that has by the grace of GOD made western civilization the greatest the world has ever seen.  Jason T. is not a Jew or a Christian or an American or a Brit, etc.  This civilization does not belong to him.  He is no different from the immigrant who refuses to learn the language, and lives in a ghetto.

The constant rise of new generations makes it necessary to revisit the flawed thinking of such individuals.  I can't imagine a 15 year old understanding that such people are insecure, abused, and are anything but petulant regarding faith of any kind.  Anarchists.  Lost.  Pathetic.

I am an American, and would vote to lay waste to any nation that threatens this New
Holy Land.  Same goes for threats to Britain, Japan, and Israel.  I am afraid that soon I may be called upon to fight.  Allah save them if that should happen.

And that is what the Jihadi threat is all about.  How far will they go before we are pushed that far?  What we have learned is that they do not have limits to their barbarity.  So the real debate is do we have that right?  Yes we do.  Even though some of us are crazy left, crazy right or just plain crazy.

Comment #18Samir

2007-10-31 07:20:00

Agrippa2k, your comments are full of rhetoric but not facts. I am a Westerner and non-white. Your skin color has no ownership of this hemisphere, as much as you and your neo-Nazi ilk would like to believe.

Comment #19Agrippa2k

2007-10-31 09:12:22

Samir -

I am sorry your READING skills are so lacking.  You should refer to Jason T's comment #7.  You are correct, skin color is not the force behind "Western" civilization.  Jason T. is the neo-Nazi.  I reject him.  In fact he is not a "Westerner" - he doesn't even know what it means.

Western civilization is Judeo-Christian civilization.  The departure from anything that came before is due to this influence (though it was not a smooth transition).  In fact it might be correct to say that it did not mature even until the end of the last century (1900s).  Which begs the question is it now in decline?

In America Western Civilization is defined by the Declaration of Independence alone.  In Europe it is based primarily on legend and history.  That history is Kingdoms, Revolutions, War, and Christianity.  Not all of the influential people of concern were white.  None of which had much to do with the East.  That is why we call it "Western" civilization.

"Civilization" - a larger concept, extends back as far as Egypt, India, China, Africa (ancient influence from South America is lost).  However, these are not primary influences on "Western" civilization.

Middle Eastern "civilization" did not influence "Western Civilization".  Unless you want to consider slavery and Islamic invasion?

While it may be said that Middle Eastern and Eastern traditions and culture have an influence on Western society - this is not the same as the civilization.

Comment #20Zoe Brain

2007-10-31 09:44:33

First Rate Interview, with facts and commentary well separated, as they should be.

As regards content, much of what was said was plausible, and not just superficially either. Many good and quite valid points were raised.

He's also a racist weasel. That much was evident by the evasions on unanswerable points. If he'd said "Boy, I really screwed up that time! What I meant was yada yada, but no-one hearing the words could interpret them as anything else but the usual racist claptrap" then maybe I might have given him the benefit of the doubt.

But there was too much dog-whistling, too much "the Left says X so X must be wrong" and an obvious attempt to pander to people's prejudices and memories of what our enemies (not just opponents) have done in an attempt to whitewash the VB's unsavoury past. And present, for it's obvious there's a lot of winking and nodding to the racist elements still within European society.

More Please. Take a rest if need be, but we need journalism like this.

Comment #21Brett_McS

2007-10-31 10:17:13

Zoe, I agree with your comments, and he certainly did the ol' weasel thing in the interview, like any 'good' politician.  Here's a question, though.

Who are the most racist people on the earth?

In my relatively limited experience, my answer would be the Japanese.  They think (neh know) that every other race is inferior to them.  But I, a mere anglo-saxon have travelled and done business in Japan with absolutely no problem whatsoever.  They are friendly, cooperative, hard working etc.   Even though I know that they look down on me as inferior.  But that's their problem, not mine.

So, the question is: "Is being a racist that big a deal?"  We all have a natural preference for people similar to us.  It makes life more relaxed if one can assume agreement of ones neighbours on a wider variety of attitudes and customs.

Again I would recall the Lord Acton quote I posted above.  The direction Tom Paine is heading - taken to its logical conclusion - is toward the alliance which is as pure as the driven snow, purged of all possible "dodgy" associations and imperfect thoughts.  The alliance of one.

Comment #22Doug Payton

2007-10-31 14:26:13

Brett, it is one thing to prefer people similar to yourself, whether it be ham radio operators, computer programmers, conservatives, Lutherans, or whites.  It is another thing entirely to enshrine such preference in a party platform or law.   You can't legislate private preferences, but it becomes a legislative matter when a group is systematically and purposefully rejected, or when one such preference is considered "the" preference.

The problem you see as the logical conclusion is not so much the "logical" conclusion as it is the extreme conclusion, something I don't want and I don't think Tom Paine wants.  As Joan noted in #8, there may be times when disassociating oneself with those you believe are counterproductive to your cause is worth the loss of an ally.  When the communists march against the Iraq war, there's little doubt, at least for me, that they do so because it's convenient for them.  The aims of the Democrats on the American Left are far closer to their socialist / communist leanings that they'll do just about anything to give them what boost they can.  When I see the communists march, frankly that's all I see; an alliance of convenience on the way to communism.  The American Left would do well, IMHO, to disassociate themselves from that element.  (That they don't says more to me about the American Left than it does the communists.)

The question then is, how racist are these racists that wish to make common cause with us?  You assert that everyone's racist -- everyone has preferences -- but that assertion blurs the whole scale from enjoying church with fellow believers to killing Jews at the drop of a hat.

And so Paine's conclusion is not where you believe it is; as I said, your conclusion is the extreme one, not the logical one.  The beauty of Western Civilization is that it's not "American" civilization, or "Flemish" civilization or "white" civilization.  It can accommodate people of all races, creeds and cultures.  With that civilization comes shared values, racism not being one of them, in spite of the evils of slavery in our own past.  That those shared values came mostly from a particular race I think is really beside the point.  That said race was heavily influenced by a particular religious and political tradition is, I think, more germane than the color of their skin.  Fortunately, this religious and political tradition welcomes all, regardless of race, hence the fact that racism is indeed not a shared value.

(Everybody lies, too, but that doesn't mean it's not something to be eschewed.  If that was something a potential ally espoused, I wouldn't want him in my corner.)

The question then is how much is too much?  If VB truly wants to enshrine "white" Europe in a party plank, it doesn't sound like they share that shared value.

To be honest, I haven't been following this "civil war", and this SNN episode was the first I'd heard of it.  I did read Pam's side of the story at Atlas Shrugs, but she puts up mostly a circumstantial case ("Nazis wouldn't do this, so why would these guys?") rather than an affirmative one.  That makes me uneasy.

One the lighter side, since SNN may not be going away so abruptly, my latest Global Warming Update may yet get aired. :)

Comment #23Babs

2007-10-31 16:33:08

Based on my following of events, parts of Europe Northern Europe has its back to the wall regarding allowing a major cultural shift within their population or fighting against it.

The events of 9-11 at the seat of EU gov't where peaceful protesters were brutalized and arrested/detained certainly should cause an alarm for everyone that wishes to maintain freedom of speech and assembly.

 A political group, one that is supported by a quarter of the residents in Flanders, is speaking out about the invasion of their country and the supression of indiginous rights by an immigrant minority, aided and abetted by politicians. In addition, I think it is fairly well documented that Flanders is "rowing the boat" for the rest of Belgium and is damn sick and tired of being dictated to by those not as productive as they.

Never mind the left who have done their absolute best to supress this dissent, we now have the right taking pot shots at them (getting into blog wars and banning them) for allegience of many decades ago and comments like "white" culture. With a left that so dominates this discussion, I wonder how in heck anyone thinks the entire thing will turn on its head and take Europe back to 1936?

To those that want to villify SIOE and the VB, who do you see coming forward to speak to this huge erosion of rights placed on the native people of Northern Europe? There are now many communities that are "no-go" areas, a hugely increased welfare cost to care for immigrants, and a swamping of the cultural norms that seemed to serve the indiginous population for quite some time.

Rather than just reject, I surely would like to see something positive placed on the table. In lieu of that, I can hardly blame a quarter of the Flanders population for voting for the VB and I condemn the Belgium gov't for its supression of assembly and free speech.

Stop screaming Nazi and start putting some solutions on the table.

Comment #24Smit

2007-10-31 18:31:57

Three cheers for Meryl!

If any of the new listeners want an absolute treat, go back & listen to Meryls segment of SNN 83 where she interviews the 2008 Presidential candidates.  Or the best one ever where Meryl scores an interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. (SNN 81)

Comment #25Brett_McS

2007-10-31 20:45:16

Doug, does the interviewee's party enshrine "whites-only" in their party law?  If it suspected that they do, wouldn't it have been a good question for the interview?    As far as I could tell they are more concerned about cultural imperialism from Islamic immigration than anything else, and, as Brian of London often askes, "Which race, exactly, is Islam?"

We certainly don't want the extreme conclusion of an alliance of one, but unless Vlaams Verhlag, or whatever it is, has formalized a racist position in their constitution it seems more than a little silly to get in a huff about racial preferences, which as I noted, most people on earth have.

To show that the extreme conclusion is not also the logical one, it must be shown at which point the process of exclusion stops.  You have not done that.

Comment #26Doug Payton

2007-10-31 21:06:02

Bret, political parties and coalitions do this all day, every day; US Republicans include many groups that, among those groups, can sometimes work at cross purposesl  Think libertarians vs. social conservatives on abortion and gay marriage, but at the same time both denounce David Duke.  Trying to win some debate team olympics by declaring a fixed line that clearly defines where exclusion stops is not really possible.  That point is as varied as the participants and the issues.

Paine quoted Filip, if I recall correctly, as wanting to advance "white Europe", so the issue was brought up.  That seems to be his aim.  Whether it's in written down on a piece of paper or dissembled as "metaphors" doesn't really matter as long as that's truly their aim.  I'll again concede that this specific situation is new to me.  Maybe I'm reading him wrong.  Nonetheless, handwaving it away with an "everybody does it" attitude seems overly tolerant of something that could be pretty invidious.  (As I said, everybody lies, too.)

Comment #27Brett_McS

2007-10-31 22:02:23

Doug, if they don't have "whites only" as an official part of their platform - as per a David Duke -  then the reasons for excluding them are based on what we think their motives may be.  That doesn't provide much of a stopping point on the road to excluding everyone but the pure of heart.

If everyone has a chronic preference for their own race, that isn't a big problem.  (On the other hand if everyone goes around lying all the time - as per in much of the middle east - that certainly is a problem ).

Racism is not a serious problem provided it is not institutionalised (which it is in America - witness college admission quotas).  So, OK, we don't like people who are racist.  Fine.  But are we going to let our strategy be governed by emotion or reason?

Personally I don't mind people who are racist - it doesn't bother me.  People who do mind should perhaps look a bit into their own psychology.

Comment #28clazy

2007-11-01 03:09:49

Brett, you make it sound as if racism were bad breath or poor table manners rather than a stingy simplemindedness that is unforgivable in intelligent people who have lived broadly. I'm sure I'd have no trouble tolerating Filip DeWinter as a person, but there's no way I'd want someone like him in a position of power, and it does no credit to the members of Valaams Belang that they've chosen him for their leader.

Comment #29Murray

2007-11-01 03:45:09

Ok everyone relax, the situation is totally under control as of right now... whats going on anyway?

A man goes with things like electricity and a phone for a few weeks and everyone just gets all bitter and stuff.

Comment #30Winsome Gnarly

2007-11-01 04:19:40

First off I'd like to express my delight at the possibility of SNN resurrecting as per the update. SNN has been part of my world pretty near since its inception, and while I can bear the occaisional hiati, its total absence would be sorely missed

Secondly, and more to the point. I agree that Tom Paine's interview was both excellent, and revelatory. Furthermore I really agree with the pseudonymous Mr Paines admonition that:

"If some of you don't like his answers and would have preferred he (Phillips) said somehing different then perhaps you shold ask yourselves; if your desire to have an established European political party as a partner in the counter-jihad movement might perhaps be overwhelming your better judgement.

The obfuscations, mumbled excuses, about political leanings of newspapers which published quotes whether they where in context, logic, chopping about linguistic differences, and a clear desire to find the kindest possible interpretations for his statements, is exactly what all of you would condemn in a left-wing opponent. When I here excuses like; well... that was a metaphore, I just roll my eyes. That's the kind of pathetic attempt to weasel out of something that I have come to expect from someone like Tariq Ramadan trying to explain that uh jihad means 'inner struggle', yeah not the plain, simple, and obvious meaning of holy war. I don't like this sort of behavior on the left, and I don't see why it should be tolerated on the right either... or whatever the hell we are. I'm really getting sick of this that jihad is not a left vs. right issue anyway.

I asked the questions that needed to be asked, Phillips said what he said, he had all the time to do it, and if you don't like what he said then maybe that's because it was a pile of shit. Paint it with gold leaf, spray it with perfume, and tie it with a pretty pink bow all you like but shit's still shit. The interview is done, it should be published, and let the chips fall where they may. If you are uncomfortable being associated with some of the things Phillips said, well... maybe you should be. As for me I've always believed in the ultimate western strength of openness, and self criticism. What I'm hearing from some people right now though, is a negation of that in favor of some vague notion of a wider political necessity. If the facts are unpalatable, then you have to deal with them, not try retrospectively to alter them to suit this months fashions. You have to deal with reality, or reality will certainly deal with you."

Tom Paine goes on to explain how he's been troubled by some of the "more extreme" (presumably racist) elements within the counter-jihadi movement, and his concern that the movement may be "hijacked" by those so inclined, leads him to surmise that:

"As well as struggling against a fanatic and cruel enemy, it's probably necessary to define what it is we are fighting for, and if people are indeed going to be participating in a fight they need to be very sure of the people in the foxhole next to them. I really think that all of us need to take a good hard look in the mirror and ask ourselves who we are, what we stand for, and where do we draw the line."

The reality is we are in fact shareing a foxhole with some rather fecund racist and authoritarian types, and indeed we do need to be very sure who they are, but as Tom P. also says, "you have to deal with reality, or reality will certainly deal with you", and the reality which is rushing at us head long is wearing a nuclear suicide vest. No matter how repugnant those with whom we share the foxhole may be, we really don't have the luxury of having another one to select.

Fact is no matter what anyone says 99% of humanity is racist to some degree, maybe even T Paine. I draw the line at those who advocate codifying their prejudice in law.

Comment #31Brett_McS

2007-11-01 07:59:59

Doug, I think racism would be rather more tolerable in an acquintance than bad breath, because racism is an attitude or belief - it doesn't do me any harm!  Can we please distinguish between ideas and actions?  It would help avoid confusion.

Comment #32Brett_McS

2007-11-01 08:25:34

Just saw the update.  Well done Merryl!  Thanks Brian.  Hope Tom is still on board the good ship SNN?

Comment #33Laurence Simon

2007-11-01 15:56:10

I step away for 5 weeks, and you monkeys devolve into THIS?

Jesus Christ, guys. Kiss and make up.

Otherwise, the terrorists will already have won, and the few descendants you have spawned that survive the Conquest will face conversion or the sword.

-ls

Comment #34Joanne

2007-11-01 21:54:06

"I just want to thank you for your support, and ask for your patience while we have a bit of a re-think about what we're doing and how we do it."

OK, first order of business: Sooooooo, I'm guessing that Filip Dewinter will not be one of your co-anchors. Am I right?

You should indeed have Brian do the Englishman in America thing. Great idea, especially given that he IS an Englishman in America. But you should continue to have someone based in the Mother Country, i.e., Britain. In any case, it would be easier for the two of you if you had a third person to help out.

It's too bad that you won't use a liberal on the show. (Does Meryl Yourish really qualify? I don't know.) Maybe one of those British "muscular liberals" of the Euston Manifesto or Harry's Place variety. That way, we can get some relief from the dominance of supply-side economics that's been apparent lately, which is a bit off the subject, anyway. And by throwing a bone to non-neocons, you can make them feel more comfortable with the show and more open to your anti-Muslim-fundamentalist message.

But I know that you won't do that...sigh! Anyway, it's your prerogative. I understand that.

Oh yeah, and I'm glad you're not leaving us.

Comment #35babs

2007-11-02 22:55:14

O.K. I would like to ask again, now that everyone has calmed down... What is the answer to the errosion of rights in Northern Europe? What is the answer to the cultural conversion that is taking place at a more quickening pace than ever before?

Please advise me if this cultural change to a Muslim sensibility is inevitable and I will stop worrying about it? Please let me know if, in the name of cultural congreguity, people that have lived in the region are no longer allowed to object.

It sure seems that way to me.

We seem to be terribly intent on any and all that might make us into "Nazi's"of the past.  It seems that this proclivity causes us to feed on our own when we all seem to recognize that there is a huge wolf at our door.

Are there any parts of Europe that are a "no-go" due to Nazi extremism? The answer is no...

OTOH, the opposite seems to be true. What is it, exactly, that those that wish to vilify the recent movement to stop this trend advocate?

I haven't gotten the memo yet...

Comment #36Brian of London

2007-11-03 09:50:07

I'll break my silence at some point... but not yet. In the meantime you might like to vote for us:

http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-podcast-1.php

Comment #37Brian of London

2007-11-04 12:34:30

In case any of you haven't heard we are, once again, finalists in the Weblog award for Best Podcast. You can vote here:

Weblog Awards 2007 Best Podcast

Comment #38Shamino

2007-11-06 00:46:52

Tom - whatever you do, don't collapse the podcast. You and Brian have worked so well together for so long, it would be morally reprehensible to throw it all away over professional differences regarding a single interview.

I heard the interview and I think you did an incredibly good job. You asked just the right questions and gave him enough rope to hang himself, and without ever once becoming abusive. And your followup commentary was the icing on the cake - making absolutely sure that nobody got the wrong impression about why you allowed this person time to speak.

By all means, take a vacation if you think you need one. And when you're good and rested, please come back. I look forward to hearing both you and "Brian of America" when you do.

Comment #39Mark James

2007-11-06 20:52:01

You should embed the voting ballot module just like Jawa Report does: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/190036.php

Comment #40Joanne

2007-11-07 07:17:03

Maybe you should have Tomer Israeli take over for awhile.  Hmmmmmm.

Comment #41ambiorix eburones

2007-11-20 01:51:22

I live in Flanders, and I vote Vlaams Belang.

This is the only party that suppports our way of life against the insane multicultural society, that will eventually lead to a full-scale civil war.
Vlaams Belang fascists?
Certainly not in my opinion.

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